As an American who's lived in Europe for over 20 years, I totally agree with this. Strauss-Howe Generational Theory maps out how age cohorts behave differently, especially with regard to toleration of income inequality, depending on their distance from a "Crisis Turning" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theory#Timing_of_generations_and_turnings ... which tend to be 20-25 years in length. Comedian George Carlin once famously said "It's called 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it" https://youtu.be/-54c0IdxZWc .
The Great Depression hit all developed economies hard, both winners and losers, but one can argue that America exited the war unbelievably well-positioned to flourish and prosper to a degree that Germany and Japan couldn't realistically achieve for another 20 years (and from which the UK sort of never really recovered), especially as they had to completely rebuild their infrastructures as well (which, ironically, set them up to dominanate manufacturing a lot longer than the US could on a rusting manufacturing base by the 1980s). America and Britain also had well-developed and funded national stimulus programs (Interstate Highway System), research funding (Apollo Program), pensions, and welfare systems (Social Security, NHS), etc., but one can can argue that Reaganism and Thatcherism were manifestations of the Strauss-Howe view that "unravelings come after Awakenings when society wants to atomize and enjoy". Meanwhile, Europe and Japan, on a 20-year lag, remained staunchly more collectivist, not necessarily because they were more compassionate, but because they were time-wise closer to the really bad stuff (poor people create social unrest and support dictators) and (as the US did to get out of the Depression) needed lots of comfortably-paid and well-educated middle-class labor to keep all the machinery running. One could argue that Europe started to reach the same point in 2000, and is now catching up (AfD, LaPen, even Brexit), and indeed inequality is starting to rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality . Like Klement, I think one's time proximity and exposure to "family lore" on tough times governs one's views on inequality a great deal.
I have another (highly unscientific) observation when things work the other way: Cigarette smoking was a lot more prevalent early on in the US, partly because that's where tobacco is grown, but also because factory-rolled cigarettes were first developed and marketed there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays#Tobacco there (Camels were standard issue to US soldiers in WWI). As a result, one can argue that the US had a 25-year lead on mass-market smoking. The average onset of lung cancer is 66, so the first wave of ill-effects were first visible to extended families right around the time of the Surgeon General's Report in 1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_and_Health . I think that negative "family lore" came a lot earlier than it did for many in Europe, where mass-market smoking was a later phenomenon, and as a result is only now is it starting to become socially-unacceptable in Europe. I suspect that obesity appears to be on a similar time-lag, sadly in the wrong direction :-(
Al Murray a.k.a.The Pub Landlord speaking to an American "We don't have a 'British Dream', not because we don't have a sense of moral purpose, not because we don't have a sense of a guiding destiny taking us toward a better tomorrow. We don't have a 'Dream' in this country - because we're awake!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr7bKYMuerA
^Re: "Like Klement, I think one's time proximity and exposure to "family lore" on tough times governs one's views on inequality a great deal.", my wife any my kids are mid-20s, we are nearly 60, our parents are mid-80s, and our grandparents are dead but would be 110-120. On this timeline, even though my grandparents lived into the time my kids were born, the latter were too young to have heard any Roaring '20s/Great Depression/WWII lore from them as I did growing up. My American parents are still alive, but (unless you include 1970s Energy Crisis/inflation stories) have nothing but positive family stories to tell. On the other hand, my German wife's parents (born mid/late-'30s as well) still have *plenty* of stories on wartime bombings, shortages, rationing, widespread poverty, etc. As a result, my wife and I have massive differences of opinion on household decisions; I tend to be generous in wanting to donate old clothes and don't want to clutter up the attic, garage, or yard, whilst my wife is a hoarder who pack-rats everything, stocks canned food (that inevitably goes bad), drags in scrap wood etc., and generally doesn't throw stuff away with the view that "you never know when you might need it".
Similarly, I lean left-of-center politically myself, but find myself sometimes find myself hearing about the occasional super de luxe German government program or benefit and think to myself "hmmm ... isn't that a disincentive to actually working?" or see how many people (including my wife!) are on the local city governmen payroll and think "hmmm ... should taxes really be this high to pay for all these people warming office chairs?" My German wife *does* complain about things, but seems resigned to them being permanent deadweight losses as part of the price of social cohesion ("if they fired all those civil servants, what would they do except go on welfare anyway"), whereas some days(especially in the wake of recent public transportation strikes) I feel *very* American about things ("why don't they just fire anyone for six months and "fix on fail" and re-hire only as things start to break ... like Ronald Reagan did with the air traffic controllers?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968) )
So funny. I am German and married to an American and we seem to have similar experiences. there definitely is a cultural bias at play for both Germans and Americans. Plus, the generational traits in terms of consumption, attitudes to inflation, etc. are real. I assume you are familiar with Ulrike Malmendier's work: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/126/1/373/1901343?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Ironically, when it comes to political leaning it also depends where you live. In Germany, I would be considered centre-right (CDU voter), which makes me centre-left here in the UK and a socialist in the US. Go figure...
I am now, thanks! My German extended family is also CDU, but my US family *used* to be economic conservative/social liberal (in the American sense) "Rockefeller Republicansl, or more derisively "RINOs (Republicans in name only" who voted Kennedy/Johnson/Carter) until Reagan, after which they've slowly become registered Clinton/Biden Democrats, so I think we've all wound up at the same place.
I guess the Dutch simply fell from the chart on the right bottom corner? Or did we crawl underneath the x axis and disappeared that way?
As for collapsing societies i'd highly recommend the Fall of Civilizations podcast which, on youtube, became a documentary series. Better than most stuff you'll find on tv:
As an American who's lived in Europe for over 20 years, I totally agree with this. Strauss-Howe Generational Theory maps out how age cohorts behave differently, especially with regard to toleration of income inequality, depending on their distance from a "Crisis Turning" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss–Howe_generational_theory#Timing_of_generations_and_turnings ... which tend to be 20-25 years in length. Comedian George Carlin once famously said "It's called 'The American Dream' because you have to be asleep to believe it" https://youtu.be/-54c0IdxZWc .
The Great Depression hit all developed economies hard, both winners and losers, but one can argue that America exited the war unbelievably well-positioned to flourish and prosper to a degree that Germany and Japan couldn't realistically achieve for another 20 years (and from which the UK sort of never really recovered), especially as they had to completely rebuild their infrastructures as well (which, ironically, set them up to dominanate manufacturing a lot longer than the US could on a rusting manufacturing base by the 1980s). America and Britain also had well-developed and funded national stimulus programs (Interstate Highway System), research funding (Apollo Program), pensions, and welfare systems (Social Security, NHS), etc., but one can can argue that Reaganism and Thatcherism were manifestations of the Strauss-Howe view that "unravelings come after Awakenings when society wants to atomize and enjoy". Meanwhile, Europe and Japan, on a 20-year lag, remained staunchly more collectivist, not necessarily because they were more compassionate, but because they were time-wise closer to the really bad stuff (poor people create social unrest and support dictators) and (as the US did to get out of the Depression) needed lots of comfortably-paid and well-educated middle-class labor to keep all the machinery running. One could argue that Europe started to reach the same point in 2000, and is now catching up (AfD, LaPen, even Brexit), and indeed inequality is starting to rise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality . Like Klement, I think one's time proximity and exposure to "family lore" on tough times governs one's views on inequality a great deal.
I have another (highly unscientific) observation when things work the other way: Cigarette smoking was a lot more prevalent early on in the US, partly because that's where tobacco is grown, but also because factory-rolled cigarettes were first developed and marketed there https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays#Tobacco there (Camels were standard issue to US soldiers in WWI). As a result, one can argue that the US had a 25-year lead on mass-market smoking. The average onset of lung cancer is 66, so the first wave of ill-effects were first visible to extended families right around the time of the Surgeon General's Report in 1964 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_and_Health . I think that negative "family lore" came a lot earlier than it did for many in Europe, where mass-market smoking was a later phenomenon, and as a result is only now is it starting to become socially-unacceptable in Europe. I suspect that obesity appears to be on a similar time-lag, sadly in the wrong direction :-(
Thank you so much for bringing up George Carlin. If there is one comedian I wish were alive today, it is him.
Al Murray a.k.a.The Pub Landlord speaking to an American "We don't have a 'British Dream', not because we don't have a sense of moral purpose, not because we don't have a sense of a guiding destiny taking us toward a better tomorrow. We don't have a 'Dream' in this country - because we're awake!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr7bKYMuerA
^Re: "Like Klement, I think one's time proximity and exposure to "family lore" on tough times governs one's views on inequality a great deal.", my wife any my kids are mid-20s, we are nearly 60, our parents are mid-80s, and our grandparents are dead but would be 110-120. On this timeline, even though my grandparents lived into the time my kids were born, the latter were too young to have heard any Roaring '20s/Great Depression/WWII lore from them as I did growing up. My American parents are still alive, but (unless you include 1970s Energy Crisis/inflation stories) have nothing but positive family stories to tell. On the other hand, my German wife's parents (born mid/late-'30s as well) still have *plenty* of stories on wartime bombings, shortages, rationing, widespread poverty, etc. As a result, my wife and I have massive differences of opinion on household decisions; I tend to be generous in wanting to donate old clothes and don't want to clutter up the attic, garage, or yard, whilst my wife is a hoarder who pack-rats everything, stocks canned food (that inevitably goes bad), drags in scrap wood etc., and generally doesn't throw stuff away with the view that "you never know when you might need it".
Similarly, I lean left-of-center politically myself, but find myself sometimes find myself hearing about the occasional super de luxe German government program or benefit and think to myself "hmmm ... isn't that a disincentive to actually working?" or see how many people (including my wife!) are on the local city governmen payroll and think "hmmm ... should taxes really be this high to pay for all these people warming office chairs?" My German wife *does* complain about things, but seems resigned to them being permanent deadweight losses as part of the price of social cohesion ("if they fired all those civil servants, what would they do except go on welfare anyway"), whereas some days(especially in the wake of recent public transportation strikes) I feel *very* American about things ("why don't they just fire anyone for six months and "fix on fail" and re-hire only as things start to break ... like Ronald Reagan did with the air traffic controllers?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Air_Traffic_Controllers_Organization_(1968) )
So funny. I am German and married to an American and we seem to have similar experiences. there definitely is a cultural bias at play for both Germans and Americans. Plus, the generational traits in terms of consumption, attitudes to inflation, etc. are real. I assume you are familiar with Ulrike Malmendier's work: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/126/1/373/1901343?redirectedFrom=fulltext
Ironically, when it comes to political leaning it also depends where you live. In Germany, I would be considered centre-right (CDU voter), which makes me centre-left here in the UK and a socialist in the US. Go figure...
I am now, thanks! My German extended family is also CDU, but my US family *used* to be economic conservative/social liberal (in the American sense) "Rockefeller Republicansl, or more derisively "RINOs (Republicans in name only" who voted Kennedy/Johnson/Carter) until Reagan, after which they've slowly become registered Clinton/Biden Democrats, so I think we've all wound up at the same place.
I guess the Dutch simply fell from the chart on the right bottom corner? Or did we crawl underneath the x axis and disappeared that way?
As for collapsing societies i'd highly recommend the Fall of Civilizations podcast which, on youtube, became a documentary series. Better than most stuff you'll find on tv:
https://www.youtube.com/@FallofCivilizations/videos
I am already a subscriber to the Fall of Civilisations. Brilliant podcast.