Second part of the comment, part one below (i think): Having citizens deal with abstractions can produce 'rich' outcomes:
Just last week more hand wringing for the Dutch when dealing with an abstraction. A survey showed that those who 'care' the most for our beleaguered Planet - median to high earners, who produce the most CO2 - did the least to change their ways (apart from accusing others i guess). While those who worried least - low to median earners - through their modest lifestyles, were the least harmful.
At the same time it's those median to high earners who, through their media and 'specialized' climate-psychologists (no really) who've teamed up with just-as-concerned marketers, are having desperate public discussions on how to reach the (literally a bit poor) brains of the low to median earners, to have them BELIEVE. Like with any religion apparently believing in the abstraction is enough, at least that much we can deduce from the example set by median to high earners.
To run a test in the UK just ask your friends and colleagues and perhaps even yourself 'what will it be? Blackpool? Bournemouth? Or Bali? Obviously alliteration is never a coincidence when the UK is involved and i see rich language-based opportunities for UK climate-psychologists to reach the brains of the Planet-Saviors-in-name-only-as-for-now to have them, pardon, help them live up to their worries (and moral standards - hello FT) and cycle to Bournemouth this summer. Now that the UK Met Office since 2021 calls any +20C day a 'Heat day' surely Bournemouth won't disappoint the swimmers.
Back to the study, 2 x abstraction:
Example 1:
'The fact that people in Nigeria take such a positive view of capitalism may come as a surprise, especially as they also view the market economy negatively. But in Nigeria, capitalism may be a word of hope: People in this poor country may associate it with the kind of prosperity they see in Western countries.'
Example 2:
'For the sets of questions where the word ‘capitalism’ was used, the Vietnamese were clearly pro-capitalist (with a coefficient of 1.31). In contrast, where the word ‘capitalism’ was not used, Vietnamese responses were moderately anti-market (0.78).'
- Thank God Foucault and Derrida aren't around anymore to have a go at the language...
The study's conspiracy thinking segment's 'revelations' https://tinyurl.com/2wdrv9sn are a bit rich. It's not surprising that even pro capitalist Americans agreed with the sentence below, designed to 'reveal' conspiracy thinkers:
‘In reality, politicians don't decide anything. They are puppets controlled by powerful forces in the background.’ Would you agree with that or would you disagree?'
- Which American (and foreigner) isn't accutely aware of the massive involvement of (extremely) wealthy individuals and corporations in US politics? And, apart from their backers, almost all members of Congress are wealthy BEFORE they are elected. The few that are not most likely will be when they leave - H Clinton is now worth hundreds of millions.
(On a funny note '...Albania...did we find that pro-capitalists are more likely to be conspiracy theorists than anti-capitalists.)
The Substack post: 'In the end, then, capitalism seems to be under threat' (from populists and lefties).
- Fossil energy + supply security = energy security = capitalism. Hence capitalism is under threat from lefties, middle classes and the wealthy. Much less so from populists who merely want more capitalism for themselves.
In the end, as Schumpeter (sort of) said, capitalism is coming for capitalism. And America leads the way, the study:
'The most significant exception is the United States, where respondents under the age of 30 have a neutral to slightly negative attitude towards capitalism and respondents over the age of 60 are distinctly pro-capitalism'.
But before the great Schumpeterian finale, after we've had financialized capitalism and now (after capitalism 'derisked' post the GFC at the expense of low to median income climate denying populist scum) we (re)enter gov guided capitalism - for the west, while the IMF, WB and WTO keep promoting free markets & trade for EM.
And EM love us for it. Just like they love us for increasing burning coal instead of decreasing prosperity after feb 2022. While previously (COP Glasgow) the west urged EM to transition to renewables faster. Now the free global LNG market has Pakistanis transport gas in plastic bags. While western tankers transport Indianized Russian oil.
And while they're at it Europeans experiment (not the US, that's where our industry is going) as major energy importing nations with sanctioning the world's no 2 energy exporter and at the same time having a sort of / sort of not, energy transition. Without the corresponding steady supply, grid and storage.
As long as they stay abstract abstractions work like a charm. But these days Ts are lost, sorry, put in them. If we have to believe Sunak he's going to lay an electricity cable from the UK not only to Morocco but also to the US (10 x sic).
Is Sunak saving (UK) capitalism or is he a threat?
The Chinese say 'may you live in interesting times'. And that's not a conversational pleasantry.
Europeans answer 'thank you very much (and thank you for the solar panels but not so much for the EV's) but we're a proactive lot. We don't wait for interesting times to arrive, we make them happen'.
To which the Chinese would probably answer 'yes, and we make the rest'.
“… cycle to Bournemouth this summer.” In the area just to north, local authorities have created cycle lanes on many roads. It is said funded by central government ie the tax payers. In places they are on both sides of the highway, leaving narrow carriage ways for vehicles.
(Substack had me split my comment in two, apparently it's long)...Part 1: From the study: 'For instance, approval of capitalism in the United States increases by 51 per cent when the word ‘capitalism’ is omitted from the survey item (see Figure 3)...'
- Omit 'at midnight at the cemetery' from a question like 'would you like to go for a walk' and...
You know...
'In addition, the items were designed to allow us to determine to what extent negative perceptions of capitalism stem from the negative connotation of the word itself and how much is really related to people's rejection of or support for the basic principles of the capitalist economic system'.
Aren't those basic principles not completely politicized and aren't we therefore looking at a psychology and language survey? And weren't the participants implicitly but effectively asked throughout the study about (their) politics? About the distribution of the benefits and costs of capitalism? (While i'd say the study (any study?) sheds a ton of light on how capitalism and economics is discussed in the media in countries).
Sweden hardcore capitalist? Then with a large gov share of the economy. Argentina and Brazil neutral? Milei? Lula? The Swiss anti-capitalist? The Dutch as well? A very collectivist nation yes, but if anti capitalism were a thing we'd try to sell it (and first buy it cheap somewhere else of course).
Plus (traditional) cultural traits clearly show up, example:
'In most of the surveyed countries, unsurprisingly, the respondents who describe themselves as being on left of the political spectrum are most opposed to capitalism or least pro-capitalist. One exception was Poland, where people who classify themselves as moderate leftists are even more positive about capitalism than those on the right of the political spectrum.'
Who doesn't recognize the significant number of conservative to reactionary Poles who view capitalism as a threat to traditional society? (I'd say this is one of the main differences between European and American conservatives). And don't many conservatives (and progressives) equate capitalism with liberalism (correctly in my view) and thus see (too much of) it as suspect? Look at this study-paragraph https://tinyurl.com/3674aj8d for more on (very) right wing and the pov on capitalism.
From the above Substack post:
'In my view this matches well with the populist right parties in these countries which have quintessentially anti-capitalist views and goals. Whether it is the Brexit Party in the UK (now Reform UK) which is against free trade and a more isolationist country, or the Alternative für Deutschland and Rassemblement National in France both of which are mostly defined by anti-immigration and pro-socialist government redistribution policies.'
Is being anti free trade populist and anti-capitalist?
- Pre the rise of Jean-Marie Le Pen c.s. France had significant trade barriers and vigorously protected industries and agri. Thereafter while the FN and its successors grew, France liberalized economically. And thus French blue collar workers were competing with immigrants - instead of being granted higher wages in a scenario where immigration does not occur or occurs less.
For some being anti free trade is looking out for themselves while for others being pro free trade is looking out for themselves...
- The previous US populist high watermark were the 1920s/30s, post the free trade bonanza which ended with WW1. (And boy were those populists murdered (some literally) by republicans, democrats and media teaming up - Thomas Frank).
Anti immigration = anti capitalist?
- First, again, if there is an economic motive here it's wage competition. Second, isn't white collar immigration throughout the west not (much) more restricted i.e. less laissez faire than blue collar immigration? And doesn't anti immigration not also express 'where the hell did my neighborhood go?' Something which isn't particularly on the radar of white collar workers simply because they don't live there - Sic:, and these days we have academics rambling about 'lived experiences'...
The study apparently shows, though a 1000 p country is not much for a survey, that a lot of people live in a nation that doesn't provide them with the economics they say they prefer - though economic and financial illiteracy is rife, including in the west. Just read any newspaper - minus probably the wsj - or watch tv (if you dare). For many, writing/reading on economic / capitalist affairs is an opportunity to show off 'good taste'. With the FT (a Guardian + articles on the bond market) as a prime example.
The study:
'...the indisputable statement "Capitalism has improved the situation of ordinary people in many countries” made it into the Top Five in just two out of 34 countries...(VT, NG)...In Germany, it elicited agreement from fewer respondents than any other statement on capitalism, while the statement “Capitalism is responsible for hunger and poverty” received three times more support'.
- Them righteous guilt-ridden-as-a-lifestyle German experts in exports. Then again, they save The Planet by shutting down nuclear and up burning lignite.
no surprise to me that the neo-hard-right is anti-capitalist.
Marxism 101 says that Capitalism is a brutal force of innovation, which needs corrective action in order to become humane. (And then Marxism gets weird and deterministic in saying the powers that be won't allow corrective action).
The hard-right populist / Völkisch analysis in contrast thinks that an international cabal (i.e. the WEF, or the Jews) is in charge and uses Capitalism to enslave the common folk.
A Leftist who has abandoned the determinism can learn to live with Capitalism (and most actually do, when they grow up). But if you think it's about a conspiracy -- and those who do seem to be growing in number -- then what's going to persuade you of the contrary?
I am a Fan of capitalism since there is no better alternative. But one central Point is missing: capitalism Not only brings more prosperity, it also leads to destruction of our environment because there is no Price Tag on water, Soil, air etc.
Just caught up with this. Not so much surprising as disappointing. To what extent is ignorance the cause? ie responders do not understand what capitalism involves.
Broadly, Governments are moving towards ‘interference’ with capitalism. More regulation of Private, and greater Government expenditure in things affecting Private.
I believe private enterprise can be more appropriate for an activity; and we need to attract private capital into activities helped by Government action eg in valid counter Climate Change eg development of electricity grid.
Capitalism should not be free from all restraint. Competition, Tax incentives & penalties. Regulation to deter Directors from loading their own pockets at the expense of shareholder, consumer & workers. Insolvency laws should be changed to stop directors & shareholders being bailed out with public money. Jeff Bezos & Bill Gates deserve all their rewards, Directors of mature companies do not - Exhibit A Utilities.
Interesting that East European attitudes can be extreme Pros and Cons. Sweden & Switzerland tend to Pro, while France & Netherlands to Con.
Second part of the comment, part one below (i think): Having citizens deal with abstractions can produce 'rich' outcomes:
Just last week more hand wringing for the Dutch when dealing with an abstraction. A survey showed that those who 'care' the most for our beleaguered Planet - median to high earners, who produce the most CO2 - did the least to change their ways (apart from accusing others i guess). While those who worried least - low to median earners - through their modest lifestyles, were the least harmful.
At the same time it's those median to high earners who, through their media and 'specialized' climate-psychologists (no really) who've teamed up with just-as-concerned marketers, are having desperate public discussions on how to reach the (literally a bit poor) brains of the low to median earners, to have them BELIEVE. Like with any religion apparently believing in the abstraction is enough, at least that much we can deduce from the example set by median to high earners.
To run a test in the UK just ask your friends and colleagues and perhaps even yourself 'what will it be? Blackpool? Bournemouth? Or Bali? Obviously alliteration is never a coincidence when the UK is involved and i see rich language-based opportunities for UK climate-psychologists to reach the brains of the Planet-Saviors-in-name-only-as-for-now to have them, pardon, help them live up to their worries (and moral standards - hello FT) and cycle to Bournemouth this summer. Now that the UK Met Office since 2021 calls any +20C day a 'Heat day' surely Bournemouth won't disappoint the swimmers.
Back to the study, 2 x abstraction:
Example 1:
'The fact that people in Nigeria take such a positive view of capitalism may come as a surprise, especially as they also view the market economy negatively. But in Nigeria, capitalism may be a word of hope: People in this poor country may associate it with the kind of prosperity they see in Western countries.'
Example 2:
'For the sets of questions where the word ‘capitalism’ was used, the Vietnamese were clearly pro-capitalist (with a coefficient of 1.31). In contrast, where the word ‘capitalism’ was not used, Vietnamese responses were moderately anti-market (0.78).'
- Thank God Foucault and Derrida aren't around anymore to have a go at the language...
The study's conspiracy thinking segment's 'revelations' https://tinyurl.com/2wdrv9sn are a bit rich. It's not surprising that even pro capitalist Americans agreed with the sentence below, designed to 'reveal' conspiracy thinkers:
‘In reality, politicians don't decide anything. They are puppets controlled by powerful forces in the background.’ Would you agree with that or would you disagree?'
- Which American (and foreigner) isn't accutely aware of the massive involvement of (extremely) wealthy individuals and corporations in US politics? And, apart from their backers, almost all members of Congress are wealthy BEFORE they are elected. The few that are not most likely will be when they leave - H Clinton is now worth hundreds of millions.
(On a funny note '...Albania...did we find that pro-capitalists are more likely to be conspiracy theorists than anti-capitalists.)
The Substack post: 'In the end, then, capitalism seems to be under threat' (from populists and lefties).
- Fossil energy + supply security = energy security = capitalism. Hence capitalism is under threat from lefties, middle classes and the wealthy. Much less so from populists who merely want more capitalism for themselves.
In the end, as Schumpeter (sort of) said, capitalism is coming for capitalism. And America leads the way, the study:
'The most significant exception is the United States, where respondents under the age of 30 have a neutral to slightly negative attitude towards capitalism and respondents over the age of 60 are distinctly pro-capitalism'.
But before the great Schumpeterian finale, after we've had financialized capitalism and now (after capitalism 'derisked' post the GFC at the expense of low to median income climate denying populist scum) we (re)enter gov guided capitalism - for the west, while the IMF, WB and WTO keep promoting free markets & trade for EM.
And EM love us for it. Just like they love us for increasing burning coal instead of decreasing prosperity after feb 2022. While previously (COP Glasgow) the west urged EM to transition to renewables faster. Now the free global LNG market has Pakistanis transport gas in plastic bags. While western tankers transport Indianized Russian oil.
And while they're at it Europeans experiment (not the US, that's where our industry is going) as major energy importing nations with sanctioning the world's no 2 energy exporter and at the same time having a sort of / sort of not, energy transition. Without the corresponding steady supply, grid and storage.
As long as they stay abstract abstractions work like a charm. But these days Ts are lost, sorry, put in them. If we have to believe Sunak he's going to lay an electricity cable from the UK not only to Morocco but also to the US (10 x sic).
Is Sunak saving (UK) capitalism or is he a threat?
The Chinese say 'may you live in interesting times'. And that's not a conversational pleasantry.
Europeans answer 'thank you very much (and thank you for the solar panels but not so much for the EV's) but we're a proactive lot. We don't wait for interesting times to arrive, we make them happen'.
To which the Chinese would probably answer 'yes, and we make the rest'.
“… cycle to Bournemouth this summer.” In the area just to north, local authorities have created cycle lanes on many roads. It is said funded by central government ie the tax payers. In places they are on both sides of the highway, leaving narrow carriage ways for vehicles.
The acid test - are they used? No.
(Substack had me split my comment in two, apparently it's long)...Part 1: From the study: 'For instance, approval of capitalism in the United States increases by 51 per cent when the word ‘capitalism’ is omitted from the survey item (see Figure 3)...'
- Omit 'at midnight at the cemetery' from a question like 'would you like to go for a walk' and...
You know...
'In addition, the items were designed to allow us to determine to what extent negative perceptions of capitalism stem from the negative connotation of the word itself and how much is really related to people's rejection of or support for the basic principles of the capitalist economic system'.
Aren't those basic principles not completely politicized and aren't we therefore looking at a psychology and language survey? And weren't the participants implicitly but effectively asked throughout the study about (their) politics? About the distribution of the benefits and costs of capitalism? (While i'd say the study (any study?) sheds a ton of light on how capitalism and economics is discussed in the media in countries).
Sweden hardcore capitalist? Then with a large gov share of the economy. Argentina and Brazil neutral? Milei? Lula? The Swiss anti-capitalist? The Dutch as well? A very collectivist nation yes, but if anti capitalism were a thing we'd try to sell it (and first buy it cheap somewhere else of course).
Plus (traditional) cultural traits clearly show up, example:
'In most of the surveyed countries, unsurprisingly, the respondents who describe themselves as being on left of the political spectrum are most opposed to capitalism or least pro-capitalist. One exception was Poland, where people who classify themselves as moderate leftists are even more positive about capitalism than those on the right of the political spectrum.'
Who doesn't recognize the significant number of conservative to reactionary Poles who view capitalism as a threat to traditional society? (I'd say this is one of the main differences between European and American conservatives). And don't many conservatives (and progressives) equate capitalism with liberalism (correctly in my view) and thus see (too much of) it as suspect? Look at this study-paragraph https://tinyurl.com/3674aj8d for more on (very) right wing and the pov on capitalism.
From the above Substack post:
'In my view this matches well with the populist right parties in these countries which have quintessentially anti-capitalist views and goals. Whether it is the Brexit Party in the UK (now Reform UK) which is against free trade and a more isolationist country, or the Alternative für Deutschland and Rassemblement National in France both of which are mostly defined by anti-immigration and pro-socialist government redistribution policies.'
Is being anti free trade populist and anti-capitalist?
- Pre the rise of Jean-Marie Le Pen c.s. France had significant trade barriers and vigorously protected industries and agri. Thereafter while the FN and its successors grew, France liberalized economically. And thus French blue collar workers were competing with immigrants - instead of being granted higher wages in a scenario where immigration does not occur or occurs less.
For some being anti free trade is looking out for themselves while for others being pro free trade is looking out for themselves...
- The previous US populist high watermark were the 1920s/30s, post the free trade bonanza which ended with WW1. (And boy were those populists murdered (some literally) by republicans, democrats and media teaming up - Thomas Frank).
Anti immigration = anti capitalist?
- First, again, if there is an economic motive here it's wage competition. Second, isn't white collar immigration throughout the west not (much) more restricted i.e. less laissez faire than blue collar immigration? And doesn't anti immigration not also express 'where the hell did my neighborhood go?' Something which isn't particularly on the radar of white collar workers simply because they don't live there - Sic:, and these days we have academics rambling about 'lived experiences'...
The study apparently shows, though a 1000 p country is not much for a survey, that a lot of people live in a nation that doesn't provide them with the economics they say they prefer - though economic and financial illiteracy is rife, including in the west. Just read any newspaper - minus probably the wsj - or watch tv (if you dare). For many, writing/reading on economic / capitalist affairs is an opportunity to show off 'good taste'. With the FT (a Guardian + articles on the bond market) as a prime example.
The study:
'...the indisputable statement "Capitalism has improved the situation of ordinary people in many countries” made it into the Top Five in just two out of 34 countries...(VT, NG)...In Germany, it elicited agreement from fewer respondents than any other statement on capitalism, while the statement “Capitalism is responsible for hunger and poverty” received three times more support'.
- Them righteous guilt-ridden-as-a-lifestyle German experts in exports. Then again, they save The Planet by shutting down nuclear and up burning lignite.
Boing.
no surprise to me that the neo-hard-right is anti-capitalist.
Marxism 101 says that Capitalism is a brutal force of innovation, which needs corrective action in order to become humane. (And then Marxism gets weird and deterministic in saying the powers that be won't allow corrective action).
The hard-right populist / Völkisch analysis in contrast thinks that an international cabal (i.e. the WEF, or the Jews) is in charge and uses Capitalism to enslave the common folk.
A Leftist who has abandoned the determinism can learn to live with Capitalism (and most actually do, when they grow up). But if you think it's about a conspiracy -- and those who do seem to be growing in number -- then what's going to persuade you of the contrary?
I am a Fan of capitalism since there is no better alternative. But one central Point is missing: capitalism Not only brings more prosperity, it also leads to destruction of our environment because there is no Price Tag on water, Soil, air etc.
Just caught up with this. Not so much surprising as disappointing. To what extent is ignorance the cause? ie responders do not understand what capitalism involves.
Broadly, Governments are moving towards ‘interference’ with capitalism. More regulation of Private, and greater Government expenditure in things affecting Private.
I believe private enterprise can be more appropriate for an activity; and we need to attract private capital into activities helped by Government action eg in valid counter Climate Change eg development of electricity grid.
Capitalism should not be free from all restraint. Competition, Tax incentives & penalties. Regulation to deter Directors from loading their own pockets at the expense of shareholder, consumer & workers. Insolvency laws should be changed to stop directors & shareholders being bailed out with public money. Jeff Bezos & Bill Gates deserve all their rewards, Directors of mature companies do not - Exhibit A Utilities.
Interesting that East European attitudes can be extreme Pros and Cons. Sweden & Switzerland tend to Pro, while France & Netherlands to Con.